Have you ever been in debt and tried to climb out of it? It’s not for sissies.
Hi, I’m Rex Rogers and this is episode #196 of Discerning What Is Best, a podcast applying unchanging biblical principles in a rapidly changing world, and a Christian worldview to current issues and everyday life.
Not long ago, indeed in my lifetime, debt, especially what was called profligate living beyond one's means, was considered morally questionable or at least unwise. Families diligently attempted to avoid bad debt and to get out of debt. Amazingly, there was a time when even politicians worked to balance budgets.
Now, it seems, American culture not only tolerates but embraces debt. We think we are entitled to live our vision of the good life, or what we think society “owes” us. We want our cake and eat it too. We want, regardless of the cost to ourselves, our nation’s wellbeing, or our progeny.
We did not invent this suspect moral philosophy. It goes back to ancient civilizations. Yet as we’ve embraced the idea that one never has to pay the piper, we’ve conveniently forgotten that one of the reasons many of those ancient civilizations are “no more” is not a lack of natural resources nor absence of ingenuity, but their unwillingness to acknowledge basic economics. Many old empires crumbled under the weight of their own debt.
Interestingly, scripture never says debt is a sin, but it does strongly state that debt is dangerous: “The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender” (Prov. 22:7). Scripture also states that one is responsible for one’s debts: “Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another” (Rom. 13:8). “The wicked borrow and do not repay, but the righteous give generously” (Ps 37:21).
I first spoke about debt in this podcast August 2022. At that time the U.S. National Debt had just surpassed $30 trillion for the first time ever. Now, the U.S. National Debt stands at $36.5 trillion. If you want to scare yourself, go to usdebtclock.org and look at the National Debt Clock. The debt does not really “stand.” It moves faster than you can count. In late 2025, the U.S. National Debt will reach 100% of the American GDP or Gross Domestic Product. Every day, the U.S. spends $2.6 billion in interest alone. "This amounts to over $106K per person in America."
We know what causes this debt: aging population, rising healthcare costs, higher interest rates, a tax system that does not bring in enough money to pay for what government promises citizens. But even more, its government spending wantonly on programs and initiatives offering little-to-no return on investment and not in the national interest. It is government largesse granted by both sides of the partisan aisle.
Recently, in a White House conversation with leaders of the Trump Administration, Elon Musk said, “Just the interest on the national debt now exceeds the Defense Department spending. We spend a lot on the Defense Department, but we're spending like $1 trillion on interest. If this continues, the country will go, become de facto bankrupt." What he is saying, and he is correct, is this trend is not sustainable.
“On November 12, (2024, President) Donald Trump announced…the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), a newly created entity focused on reducing government expenditures, slashing regulations and enacting cost-cutting initiatives throughout the federal government.” DOGE has been working rapidly ever since, and as I write, has identified $105 billion in waste, fraud, or abuse, cutting programs and shutting down entire departments like USAID.
This kind of work—budget reduction, cost cutting, restructuring or re-engineering—is rare to the point of near-non-existent in government. Consequently, when you add political partisanship to the mix, this Trump Administration effort to put the U.S. on healthy financial footing has triggered scores of Chicken Littles running around saying, “The sky is falling.” And, it has made Elon Musk the new Hitlerian man to hate and at whom to level death threats, and a man accused of stealing, lying, and helping Trump destroy democracy.
Cal Thomas said it well: “Our problem is that too many Americans have become over-reliant on government to take care of them, while ignoring the old Puritan ethic of self-reliance. Politicians have been fine with this because it contributes to their careers and power. That attitude has contributed to our $36 trillion national debt and inflation, which the administration, with the help of Elon Musk and his DOGE squad, are trying to reduce.”
In business, there’s a job called “turnaround specialist.” This person, usually with a financial background, and usually not staying long in any one location or corporation, markets him or herself as the one who, when a company finds itself upside down and sinking fast financially, a corporate board appoints at the top with complete authority, charging the turnaround specialist with righting the corporate ship, with – hear this – saving the company. The turnaround specialist is not there to save jobs, not there to preserve traditions or honor the departed. The turnaround specialist is there to do what must be done inside the corporation to – hopefully – make it possible for the business to survive into the future.
This is not fun for the people who work there, in part because, generally speaking, 75% of an organization’s costs involve personnel, so if the turnaround specialist is going to make a dent in costs and debt, personnel jobs must be eliminated.
Years ago, when we lived near New York City and I was a newly appointed Vice President of Academic Affairs at a small college north of the city, I read about the renowned and redoubtable Macy’s department store, founded in 1858. Amazingly, this company known for its flagship store at Herald Square and for supporting the Thanksgiving Day Parade down Broadway, was on the rocks financially. Macy’s “filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on January 27, 1992, after which point its banks brought in a new management team, which shut several underperforming stores, jettisoned two-thirds of the luxury I. Magnin chain, and reduced Macy's to two divisions, Macy's East and Macy's West.”
That new management team included a “turnaround specialist.” I remember walking into our NY kitchen and saying to my wife, Sarah, “How would you like to be this guy’s wife?” People were booing, sneering, and whistling at the turnaround specialists’ spouse at the supermarket, and I believe there was even a case of slashed tires. In other words, while the specialist was very well paid, the public and many employees hated that guy. He did his job, rescued Macy’s, which thrives today, and then presumably he “got out of Dodge.”
When I served as president at Cornerstone University, we experienced a year like this in which, due to a drop in enrollment, we had to lay off several staff members. It was the hardest thing I was ever involved in as an administrative leader.
Be sure of this: it is not easy or pleasant to hear we have lost our job, and it is not easy or pleasant to inform someone they have lost their job. And unlike the turnaround specialist at a large corporation like Macy’s or DOGE in a massive U.S. government, I knew the people involved. It hurt. But to save the institution what we did had to be done. I remember the university Board saying to me later, “You’re young enough you’ll likely have to go through this again in your career.”
I thought, “Thanks a lot,” but I also discovered that four or five trustees had gone through layoffs in their company, two others had gone through this twice in their careers, and one, three times.
Recently, on a Fox news Bret Baier “Special Report” panel, panelist Jessica Tarlov challenged another panelist with “Well, how many people do you want to lay off?” She was trying to say that already, enough is enough, and the prospect of more federal employees being laid off was too great a hurt for her to imagine. She saw the exercise and she evaluated DOGE in terms of how many jobs would be saved. But this is not why DOGE exists.
Now again, it’s not easy or pleasant to lay people off. No one wants to do this, even turnaround specialists. But the goal here is not jobs, but how many dollars must be cut to reach a level of financial expenditure that gets the U.S. government budget to a sustainable level, where we know we’ve righted the ship?
Losing a job is not fun. But it is not the end of the world. Losing a job is not capital punishment. A lot of us have experienced this somewhere along the way. And many who lose their federal jobs are being given significant severance, and they will find other jobs.
It’s much easier to spend money, to add to a budget deficit and a national debt, than it is to reduce spending and create a balanced budget and a workable national debt. Cutting will be unpleasant, but the goal is worth it.
It’s not unlike dieting. It’s easier to eat what we want and gain weight than it is to deny our desires and lose weight.
The national debt looms. It’s like a ticking time bomb just as dangerous as nukes. Do we have the moral fortitude to dismantle it for the good of our grandchildren?
Well, we’ll see you again soon. This podcast is about Discerning What Is Best. If you find this thought-provoking and helpful, follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Download an episode for your friends. For more Christian commentary, check my website, r-e-x-m as in Martin, that’s rexmrogers.com. Or check my YouTube channel @DrRexRogers for more podcasts and video.
And remember, it is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm.
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